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Post by Perla MV on Apr 1, 2014 18:20:55 GMT
I have an ino too, 23 days old today maybe it's too early to say, but I think there is some white on her cere, what do you think? The photo was taken with natural light. Your chick is a female as unless the mother was an ino then the chick could be either sex but as the male is the one split for ino all inos from him will be female unless he is paired to an ino hen. That is very interesting! Thank you for explaining
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Post by vanillan on Apr 2, 2014 6:28:34 GMT
kelirebeli: male creamino for Miss E/original post or for Budgielovers post?
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Post by Sarah on Apr 2, 2014 8:09:13 GMT
How can a bird be both dominant and recessive pied? I thought recessive was where it had one gene for pied and dominant has two genes for pied. This is not so. There are three separate and unique pied mutations. Budgies can carry all three genes. Dominant pied, clearflight pied and recessive pied are different. The names are associated with their relation to the set of genes that dictate a normal coat pattern. Imagine that a budgie has two gene slots that they can use to make their feathers have a certain pattern ( this isn't scientifically accurate, its just so I can explain myself a little more clearly.) In this case, we'll call the mutations "Normal," "Dominant" "Recessive" and "Clearflight." Normal+Normal= A normal, obviously. The genes are balanced and the budgie has the typical feather pattern. Dominant + Normal= A dominant pied. The bird will have a band of their undercoat color across their chest, thick or thin, broken or contigious, a clear patch on the back of their head and clear flight feathers, the markers of dominant pied. Dominant+Dominant = A double factor dominant pied. The clear areas from dominant pied are taken to the extreme: they spread so large that the bird is almost entirely white or yellow, but will always have at least some colored feathers and the eyes will turn light and the male cere will turn blue. Normal + Recessive = A normal. The recessive gene trait is just that, it recedes and is not presented unless it is the only gene present. These birds will sometimes have a patch or even only one clear feather on the back of their head, indicating that they are "split" or hiding the recessive trait. Recessive + Recessive = A recessive pied. Recessive pieds can be almost entirely white/yellow, or heavily marked. However, they will always have a patch of coloration at the bottom of the belly (between the legs) and/or a patch of coloration between the folded wings at the apex of the tail. Recessive pieds have a large clear band on their heads, and usually have a "salt and pepper" speckled appearance given by only a few dark wing feathers retaining their color in patches. The eyes also take on a distinctive plum color, a deep purple. They are not the red of an albino, but share similar qualities and do not alter with age as budgies normally would. Clearflight + Normal = A clearflight pied. This mutation is also dominant, but not quite as overpowering a mix as dominant pied. It still wins in a bidding war against normal genes, and presents with a patch on the back of the head and clear wing feathers. The body of the bird is completely unaffected. Clearflight + Dominant Pied = Dominant pied. It is hard to say wether the clearflight mutation would show up in any way in a dominant pied bird, because the same feather areas are affected in both mutations, but dominant pied adds on additional areas. A bird with both mutations is therefore practically indistinguishable from a regular dominant pied. Recessive pied + Dominant pied = A dominant pied. The stronger mutation suppresses the weaker one, and it would only be shown in a very small percentage of future offspring. Clearflight Pied + Recessive pied = A Dark Eyed Clear. The clearflight pied mutation does not overpower the recessive pied mutation, but works with it. They blot out different areas of color, and you arrive at a purely white/yellow bird with plum colored eyes.
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Post by Sarah on Apr 2, 2014 8:15:49 GMT
yeh definitely no brown, obvious pink and white, with maybe the pink areas looking to a point its possibly blue, possibly on closer look, her eyes are brown, or really dark red so it looks brown..now I'm confused lol DECs and Recessive pieds have a special eye coloration known as "plum." It is a reddish/purple color that is so dark, it looks brown unless inspected very closely. If your budgie were an albino, his bright pink eyes would be apparent. I believe that your bird is a DEC Goldenface.
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Post by dcalton75 on Apr 2, 2014 15:04:41 GMT
Amazingly interesting sarah. Budgie genetics seems so much more difficult than other birds i have an interest in. It makes cockatiel compared to budgie seem like addition compared to the quadratic equation. Or maybe thats just because i was so awful in anything math related from elementary through college. Thanks for the lesson.[/quote]
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Post by vanillan on Apr 3, 2014 0:46:35 GMT
thanks heaps Sarah. This makes it sooo much easier to determine what type of pied and/or ino budgie people may have! Great work!
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Post by Pammy on Apr 4, 2014 3:36:06 GMT
For an example, my Clausy (pictured below) is a recessive pied. He is predominantly a lovely buttercream yellow with the prettiest patches of aqua blue on his "pants" and a deeper aqua, almost turquoise between where his wings meet in back. He is a very beautiful boy.
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Post by dianapalmer on Apr 4, 2014 15:47:16 GMT
Hi, Sarah! Thank you for taking the time to post that interesting explanation. It must have taken some time! So, my snowy (the white one with the blue pants) is double recessive pied. But what about Piper (the yellow budgie). Which is his undercoat color? I thought it was the yellow. But, he has a band of green across the top of his chest and a spot of brilliant green between his wings in the back. When you say a band of undercoat across the chest, I think of Snowy, who has the white undercoat at the top of his chest and blue at the bottom. Piper has yellow undercoat in a band across his tummy. Piper and Snowy have the coloration on the fronts reversed--Piper's on the top of his chest and Snowy's on his tummy. Is Pammy's Clausy a pied creamino? I' wondering about his base color.
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Post by Pammy on Apr 5, 2014 4:11:39 GMT
I don't believe Clausy could be any kind of an "ino" because he has aqua coloring on him, and his eyes are not red.
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Post by Perla MV on Apr 5, 2014 4:39:45 GMT
Maybe he has some diluted like my babies
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Post by Sarah on Apr 5, 2014 6:38:11 GMT
Claus is a recessive pied yellowface II. Creamino's have the same yellowface II gene, but no wing markings Also, there isn't actually such a thing as a double recessive pied: a budgie can only be recessive if he has two genes for it, so the "double" part of the name isn't necessary. Diana, you are a proud owner of one recessive pied and one double factor dominant pied
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